senator mccain knows full well there was cia engagement not just with these talking points but with the actual operation around the ambassador in benghazi. everyone knows what the real story is behind here in terms of the operation, in terms of susan rice's independence, and if you want to take a sunday show talking points performance as the measure of a secretary of state, you're on very thin ground in terms of how anyone for any position could get nominated in the future. >> let me follow this thinking here. who is going to take the bullet for what looked to be the failure to protect chris stevens? who is going to take the bullet for what looks to be a misrepresentation in real time as to what happened? who is going to pay the price? >> certainly -- >> first of all, jay, go first. >> i think certainly republicans want it to be susan rice. they're essentially calling for her scalp. and you had white house press secretary jay carney out there at the same time going even farther than rice was and talking about how this was all just due to a protest and not really -- not having much to do